Is This Proof of An Afterlife?


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3walking_into_lightWhat happens after death? What happens between life and death? Is there an afterlife? How can we ever know, but still live to tell about it? Throughout this article we will dive into the amazing phenomena of Near Death Experiences (NDE) and have a look at first hand accounts of amazing glimpses into the after life.

There is something that I consider extremely profound about NDE’s; when these experiences are occurring the pineal gland actually releases a compound called dimethyltryptamine, also known as DMT. You may know of DMT as a powerful hallucinogen or psychedelic that is pretty popular among South American tribes. Most often it is used as medicine, or is mixed with another plant to produce the longer lasting version called ayahuasca. DMT is produced in the pineal gland at night and small amounts are secreted as you dream. When you die, whether you come back to life or not a large amount of DMT is secreted from the pineal gland. Many state that this is the direct cause for these NDE’s thus labeling them merely as hallucinations and nothing more. One has to wonder, why is this DMT produced, and why is that specific amount produced at the time of death? Is this substance acting as a bridge between our physical existence and other dimensions of the spiritual world?

Another thing that I find most fascinating about NDE’s is that many of the recorded accounts are very similar. The same events are occurring to people of different religious backgrounds, culture and beliefs from all over the world. Some of the similarities include:

  • A strong feeling of oneness
  • Not wanting to come back
  • Being able to see their dead/dying body
  • Brilliant white lights
  • Being greeted by deceased relatives or pets
  • Glimpses of life flashing before their eyes

If people are just having a hallucinatory experience, why are the experiences so similar? If it is constructed from their minds, then how come they are so much alike? From research I have done about DMT being used as a ‘drug,’ and the research I have come across studying NDE’s, there are many similarities.

 Here are some first hand testimonials from various people who have had a Near Death Experience.

 “Words can’t really describe the magnitude of the all-consuming love experienced when being in the light. And not only love but perfection, peace, serenity, calmness and beauty. I felt that I was safely home. I was over-awed with the experience. “ –Ken Mullans

 “Just before I regained consciousness, I remember this great light all around me. It was extremely bright and thought it should be hurting my eyes, but it didn’t. All I felt was this great sense of being at ease and love.” -

 “Then suddenly I was pulled into complete darkness. I must have been there for a minute before I saw a small, white ball coming towards me in the dark. As the ball came closer it took a form of a being. I thought instantly its Jesus! With all the religious training I had received as a child I thought that was a logical conclusion. As this being got closer I began to feel more and more of an indescribable peace, A pure joy that can’t be put into words! A love so deep that words couldn’t describe. It wasn’t Jesus, but a close friend of mine that I had known in High school who had committed suicide the year before. Approaching me I could recognize him. He was radiant. His robes flowing softly. They were like looking at pure light. He took my hands and his hands felt like flesh. All I could feel was peace, joy, and love. I told him I wanted to join him. I wanted to come with him. I knew I was dead. He told me, “No.” I had to go return to the living. To the people who cared about me. My life had meaning and purpose. I had to go back and fulfill my life’s purpose. Which I didn’t know what it was but he told me I’d know in time. So, I returned only to wake up in the hospital.” – Gamma

 “As I turned to face the direction to which I was being pulled, the moment I turned around…there was a bright blinding light, as I expected to see the moon. But at that precise moment as I faced towards the direction I was floating or being pulled towards. It felt like an instantaneous ‘vacuum’, as if I was being sucked in incredible speed towards that light. It felt like a tunnel with a light at the end of it…I felt as if I was in outer space being sucked like a vacuum racing towards the light at the end as I could make out the dots like stars around me while rushing towards that light. The only way to describe the feeling was almost like riding a motorcycle at breakneck speeds without your helmet on…or sky diving with the wind blowing hard against you…that feeling of tremendous speed where you’re helpless to do anything about it as you have no control. But as I grew closer to the light and felt it’s shine, a sudden cool and calmness came over me. For the light made me feel peaceful all the sudden as I grew closer. It was a kind of peace and calm which I’ve never felt in my entire lifetime, even until this very day. From afar, as I grew closer to the light… I could see almost like figures in the light, like heads, people all dressed in white, as if it were some sort of congregation or a crowd…the more I came closer, the more I felt like ‘staying’ and my sadness and fears disappeared. It felt like that comfort feeling of ‘home.’ – Wan I

To read more testimonials please visit http://celestial.kuriakon00.com/index.html

After reading these testimonials it definitely gives me a feeling of familiarity I feel as though I understand what is meant by ‘home.’ There is something that is just so beautiful and honest about these experiences, I am intrigued to learn more. I think it would be wonderful for anyone to read about this amazing phenomenon as it can provide much comfort and wisdom and it can definitely bring peace to departing souls. To learn more about this please check out the documentary called ‘Afterlife.’

 

I have absolutely no fear of death. From my near-death research and my personal experiences, death is, in my judgment, simply a transition into another kind of reality. -Dr. Raymond Moody

 

 Sources Used:

http://celestial.kuriakon00.com/index.html 

http://academia.edu/1970764/Role_of_DMT_in_Near_Death_Experience

http://iands.org/nde-stories/17-nde-accounts-from-beyond-the-light.html

Much Love

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More From 'Consciousness'

CE provides a space for free thinkers to explore and discuss new, alternative information and ideas. The goal? Question everything, think differently, spread love and live a joy filled life.

  1. Pingback: Is This Proof of An Afterlife? | Enchanting Minds

  2. A helping citizen

    I don’t have a full possibility that the new called ‘Afterlife’ could exist. The question keeps on going through my nerves; giving me a chill thought; To be honest, this is what I think of my own opinion: “How did we end up in the Universe if there was NOT a God/Jesus? Are we a late-comer of this Universe? My answer: “Luck”. Some day; as eternity unwraps it’s secrets, we will never know how we were born on such a beautiful planet of Life. I present: The Theory of Dysfunction.

    We only know so far about Astro-technology that helps us unravel parts of this so-called ‘Universe’ what it has been hiding. e.x: Aliens, Zombies, etc. We work so hard on what things we want to achieve out of SEVREAL; MILLIONS; of data. I had to jump to conclusions, what does this lead to? Drumb roll please . . .

    . . . The Big Bang Theory! How we say the universe began from a single pulse of energy, Infinite density, Atoms smaller THAN an Atom, We must think of how all these Ideas come to thought of our mind. Similarily, we had the Theory of Santa Claus, it was just *too* strong to think about it. This gves the example of God and the brother of Jesus. Lots of people share stories upon their Near Death Experiences (NDEs) to famous TV shows. Whats suprises me, Millions always talk about these ‘things’ when they experience it:

    * Blinding Light[s]
    * A Voice in their Head
    * Greeted by Pets/Family members
    ____________________________________________________

    People, there is a served purpose of life; set aside the “is the Dysfunction real”? Or the “whats purpose of Life”? It will have to confirmed since it took 3 years to figure this out. I will finally say it so this chain stops. if you want it: God is real, Jesus is real, the Bible is real, AND; Afterlife is true. these conditions are as followed: You may control you body. You may remember your past life. You may visit Earth AND Heaven both. You also may meet your Pets/Past living family members. I might not experience it all if I die, but it is certain it will come. You may stop worrying now; It is established.

  3. JDW

    Johan takes the standard atheist defense view (lack of scientific proof, no definable purpose, fear of death, self centered hopes for self preservation). And does this in a standard patronizing fashion, which many atheists can be known for. To me I find it wiser to follow former atheists turned agnostic, because really, is that not the smarter way to follow (Sagan, Einstein, Hawking)? You admitted we are so small in this vast universe and possible multi-verses, that shouldn’t you think, that knowing that, maybe we just don’t know everything that is out there beyond.

    You expound on lack of scientific proof of God or a higher realm, but at the same time you cannot prove there is not as well, so we are kind of stuck there. We could delve into Aquinas’ theories, but thats a different time. Full disclosure, I’m a hybrid Hinduism/Christian follower, and yes I have studied all the major religions. I have also studied NDE in depth and there is MAJOR circumstantial evidence that cannot be explained endorphin rush, ketamine release or psychotic hallucination.

    You sound like a pretty smart person, but I also think you do a disservice by ruling out anything and it would be nice if you can refrain from putting someone down in a condescending tone…

    • Johan Mathiesen

      Sorry for the tone; no offense intended, but I can be pretty harsh.

      For what it’s worth, none of Sagan, Einstein, or Hawkins is an agnostic; they all are (or were) devout atheists. Every atheist is well aware of the impossibility of proving a negative, hence no atheist will categorically say there can’t be a god; but they can say that the odds of there being a god that anyone knows anything about approach zero. We can’t know for sure if Russell’s teacup doesn’t orbit the Earth, but we can make a fairly well educated guess; ditto god.

      And, no, there’s nothing in NDE that can’t be explained by rational means. Sorry about that, too.

      Gods, NDEs, afterlives, free will: they are all human inventions to satisfy inner longings, but they have no connection with observable reality. I understand how we all start out believing stuff like that; I also understand that we grow out of it; we put away childish things. I lose track of why the universe is not big and awesome enough by itself that one has to make up gods to fill it even more. What is so lacking in the real world that one has to delve into the imagination for improbabilities that only confuse the issue? Beats me.

      • Mo

        I know for a fact that Einstein was agnostic. So you are wrong about that.

        • Not quite, Mo. Einstein used god as a metaphor, but he certainly was an atheist in terms of how he understood the universe. That old canard about Einstein floats around forever.

  4. Mario

    Hi All – Jammer Jammer – Your passsages as well as Johans.. really creeped the bleep out of me. Condolence for your irreplaceable loss. I guess I was just looking for some stuff on the internet that can kindle my thirst for knowledge regarding whether or not there is an afterlife. Whether the love we have in our hearts can be taken with us after death. I do not care about whether I am alive or dead as long as I can take the love I have for my wife with me, I dont care if I am in a warped reality as long as I can recognize my wife in the afterlife and know that she is (in whatever form) with me. Sounds like a hefty wish I know. I am glued to your comments here and all I can wish for is an afterlife.. I try to live my life as morally correct as possible just to try to please god in case he was watching….but even the smallest smidgen of proof can help me live in a little less doubt and lot less heartache regarding our inevitable separation from our loved ones…I just can bear the thought of knowing ONE DAY I am surely going to be seperated from my wife.. I scares the shit out of me and it sometimes keeps me awake…

    • JammerJammer

      As I’ve been saying, Mario, I’m looking. I’ve always been a bit of an outsider looking in on the paranormal. While on the whole, I would generally categorize the vast majority as bullshit, I’ve run into a number of people I trust who have had alarmingly coincidental things in their lives they cannot explain. A totally sane friend on mine, walking into a New Orleans cemetery on shore leave with two sailor buddies being told by an unseen voice not to enter—three times, like the voice was standing right next to him, when no one was anywhere near him. A non-believer friend who had a psychic speak in alarmingly clear terms about her mom’s recent death from cancer, describing the stage 4 rare stomach cancer—and then telling her her mom’s obscure, never-spoken pet name for her. An aunt whose mom visited her just hours after her death (no one had even found her body yet) in her dream, telling her that she was okay now and had to go, and not to worry about losing her job—it would get fixed soon—she got a job offer the next day. All three people don’t seek out the paranormal, and in fact, did not believe in it until these events occurred.

      The problem is, these events are collections of my own, from people I’ve known. If you would tell me these stories, they would be useless to me. I would assume you were pulling the old “I know a friend…” thing—the oldest trick in the book. There are even quite a few well-documented and “verified” cases of people solving crimes and disputes from beyond the grave, with information they could not have possibly gleaned elsewhere—forgotten or entirely unknown information. But unless something happens to you personally, it won’t change your life. And in fact, I would go so far as to say you should NOT believe it unless it happens to you or someone you trust implicitly. You have to seek out and discover for yourself. I haven’t found that smoking gun yet. But unlike Johan, I am still looking. We’ve just begun hypothesizing about string theory, wormholes, and alternative planes of existence. Closed minds won’t help us get there.

      I also believe that if there is some kind of additional existence on another plane, it is A) too much for us to comprehend yet and/or B) too difficult to prove conclusively with what we traditionally call evidence. Perhaps one day we’ll get there, but for now, I think it would actually be too dangerous to have everyone running around knowing there is something more. It might change the dynamic within this plane. I still believe we live here, we die here, and we’re gone forever. If there is another life, I will consider it a bonus as I miss my wife so desperately. But I have to make myself okay with the cold reality, WHILE I still search for my own evidence of what comes next.

      I have a friend who is really into the Frank’s Box thing. I think that is utter nonsense. I think you hear what you want to hear and half the time, I can’t understand a thing. Electrostatic energy monitors? Thermal detectors? I don’t know man. It seems like a lot of ghostbusters bullshit to me. But then, I haven’t explored all of them myself. My first piece of advice to you is keep looking. I can’t think of a more important personal quest than to seek out the truth of what comes next for yourself.

      My second piece of advice, and more important, is to tell your wife you love her. Tell her so she believes it, and describe the depth to her. Tell her so she knows it and trusts it, and then show her with your actions how much you love her. Make every memory you want to make with her. Don’t put off a thing if you can help it. It sounds cliche, but there is never enough time. Take photos. Videos. Because if she goes, it’s all you’ll have left. The good news? Women live a good deal longer than we do in our society. Odds are, you’ll go first!

      Good luck.

      • Mario

        Jammer – I totally agree with your “I have a friend..” theory and that people become believers in the supernatural, paranormal etc after they witness an incident either happening to them or to close friends/relatives. Some people even hope that nothing of that sort happens to them as it might scare the daylights out of them, while at the same time, we have people like you, me for sure, and a sizeable amount (as far as the internet goes) just hoping theres just some small indication. (messages on the mirror, lifelike dreams of loved ones departed)etc. I’d also like to believe that what happens in the afterlife is something science is yet to catch up with and provide an explanation (preferable in our life time) much like how it helped with every other mystery man has faced in the past.

        Sooner or later, science delivered.

        If we consider human intelligence to be incapable of understanding the grand plan, Id say we atleast possess sufficient grey goo to say,”if there is’nt an afterlife, whats the grand plan of living , working, loving for a few decades? to prove what?” . If God (the superbeing) does not make it reasonably apparent to us, wheres the incentive for us to lead a confident, morally righteous life.. just like how nothing is every destroyed, it just changes form. I would like to believe that our consciousness just changes form after death, just as the body gets transformed (decompose, reduced to basic elements) our thoughts, memories, etc should also be able to change form. And as far as the odds being stacked against me to be first to kick the bucket, Id gladly take the choice, because, to be honest, I think I wouldnt survive the incident if it happened the other way around.

        One last thing, If there isnt an afterlife, I ask, whats the big idea of evolution, evolving into such superior and intelligent beings, for what? 70-80 years to have a romp in the sack, drink a little, smoke a little, work your ass off and die? Please tell me there’s more…..

        • What is the point of evolution if there’s no afterlife? It’s hard to know where to start politely. But consider the question, “What is the point of evolution?” Do you mean “what is the point to the universe or multiverses”? Do you think that, if there were anything resembling a point to all this that we are advanced enough to understand it? Do you think evolution is about us, us humans? Do you think we are the ultimate “point” of evolution? Do you think the vastness of the universe has been created just for us and us alone?

          It is not within my power to grant you more, as you wish; but I find it interesting that, given the huge, unimaginably huge and diverse universe that we’re sitting in that you should want something more. This is not enough? Does the deer have to have something more? Does the consciousness of the grasshopper have something more?

          Don’t you see the self-centered nature of your question?

          See, I told you there was no polite way.

      • Sandra Brothers

        I study this and paranormal happenings regularly and interesting things come up. I specialize in EVP Electronic voice phenomenon, and have been able to prove it’s un debunk able if done under proper circumstances with no noise. I don’t tell many people about this being something I do out of fear of judgement since Ive had some bad run ins, but I seem to attract spirits or paranormal happenings daily no matter where I am. Recently my Uncle passed and immediately after, I get his voices recorded on EVP saying full on sentences about things that only his daughters would know about. I asked him about a light and he said that I’m the light, which has also been recorded by other spirits in the past when I asked them about the afterlife. To make a long story short, I am fully prepared to prove EVPs are real, on any equipment, as long as I am in the room. I hope I am lucky enough one day to be involved in such a study by scientists and sound analyzers. Every single day of my life consists of the afterlife. Never a dull moment lol!

        • Johan Mathiesen

          I have a bridge for sale; give me a call.

  5. Is anybody doing any real, scientific research to determine whether or not there is an afterlife?

    • The difficulty, ocinfo, is there’s no place to start. How would one even begin? There’s no theory for where the afterlife would be, how information would transfer, how would these energy packets function in an afterlife, and what would you expect in an afterlife? It’s as reasonable as asking has anyone tried to find proof of god; can’t be done. There’s no way to start investigating a fiction to find out if it’s a reality. It’s asking the wrong question.

      Stop for a minute and ask yourself, what does afterlife mean to sequoias? To horned toads? To tobacco mosaic virus? Surely, if there were an afterlife, it would be for all living things, right? Not just for humans and their pets, right? And what would one do in this afterlife. It would seem you couldn’t have a corporal state or you’d have trouble deciding which state you’d be in: as you died? As you wish you were? As you were at some arbitrary point in your life? Now, all tings in this plane are born and died without any memory of any past, so, would that happen again, or would you remember your past, this time?

      Afterlives are something wished for by humans thanks to fear of death or whatever, but there is no such thing. Relax, and take it as it comes.

      • The difference, my friend, is that there is something special about humans whether you want to believe it or not. Humans have the ability to say “why am I here?what is the purpose of life? What is the purpose of death? How did I get here?” Humans also know the difference between wrong and right. We know not to treat someone cruel because we know how it feels and we sympathize (another thing animals can’t understand) and there are many cases in which humans have risked their life for strangers and given their life for friends and loved ones. We are obviously much different from animals. Should death not be different as well? Take a step back and look at the big picture for a second, do you really believe that we are here for no reason at all? Even if you believe in Evolution and not creation you have to admit the whole idea of evolution still screams out purpose. Why would all of this evolve over millions of years for no reason? You really believe that everything has worked out so perfectly that by chance the universe came into existence? By chance everything about the earth is so perfectly in place to support life. Think about how complex the Earth really is. we are the perfect distance from the sun so we dont burn but Not so far away that we freeze, plants use the suns energy and rainfall to help create the air that we can breathe. Think about the Little things like fruit tasting sweet and music sounding so good that it can alter our mood. Why are things funny to us? Why do we get embarrassed? What evolutionary purpose would that serve? Why would we have compassion and care about some other species going extinct? How did evolution help develop that feeling? after all Evolution is all about survival of yourself firstly and your own species secondly right? When you really take a step back and look at things you will see that something bigger is happening here and there is a reason and purpose behind everything. I don’t think that we are born and we live for no reason for 80 years and then we’re gone forever….. existence and life is special, it’s a gift and I believe there is no true end to it.

        • Hi, jacob,

          I guess the first question is what do you want to know? Although you speak of looking at the “big picture,” your picture is not just earth, but human centered, anthrocentric, as it were. The features you describe as particularly human—embarrassment, refined taste, etc.—are not specific to people. Morality is something every animal has, it’s their rules of intra-species contact. Our morality is an evolution of that. Even chimps know the concept of fairness and exhibit empathy. Many, many animals are bound to each other by love.

          Furthermore, you seem to think that humans are the end point of evolution rather than just one expression of evolution that will, undoubtedly, evolve more yet. You talk of purpose, that there is purpose to evolution. No, jacob, there is no purpose, no goal for evolution; it’s all chance. We don’t have souls that other animals don’t have. (Well, for that matter, nothing has a soul.) If there would be an afterlife for us, there would be an afterlife for the e. coli and the tobacco mosaic virus. What sense does that make? You think you’re going to retain your consciousness after death, that this whole show has been put on so you could get to that point, while no other animal could? Do you really think that? That’s awfully egocentric and self-aggrandizing, no?

          Have you not thought about time or the scale of the universe? Are you aware there are 40 billion (yes, billion) potentially inhabitable planets in this galaxy alone? And that ours is but one of billions of galaxies? And you still think the universe has something to do with us? What hubris!

          I can see you don’t want to die, that somehow you think you’re special. But what would you think would happen after your death and the death of all other living things? Where would everything go? And why? Think we plunge into the dark matter? Do you think consciousness was created so it could be harvested for another dimension? Do you really think that? And that you’re going to remember this life in that dimension. I mean, if you can’t remember this life in the next dimension, what would be the point of harvesting the consciousness? Have you thought abut this beyond the wish that your life somehow won’t end? Have you thought how this transference of self fits in with the laws of the universe? Or do you think there are big laws we’re missing but that you happen to know about?

          Why do we care if other species survive? Self preservation. We don’t know which species might prove crucial to our own survival; keeping as wide a pool to draw from increases our survivability. See, jacob, these aren’t mysterious; they’re simple; you just haven’t thought them through far enough.

          But, out of curiosity, since you think there is a purpose to your life in particular, what do you think that purpose is?

          • JammerJammer

            Well the purpose certainly isn’t to spend all day trolling the internet in search of ways to ram your agenda down the throats of others. I have several problems with your patronizing post.
            1. You patently reject any concept of an afterlife, yet you claim to be open-minded about all this. You don’t even entertain the notions, you merely pound home your agenda. To say that NDEs and other purportedly paranormal phenomena are absolutely baseless is to be a close-minded, dismissive turd in the punchbowl.
            2. Your theory, that we are all accidents and life has no meaning, is very easy to ascribe to on paper. Everyone of us STARTS there. No one has iron clad proof of anything else yet, so you can always be right. Plus, I’m sure it makes for terrific shock value at dinner parties, being the Godless atheist and all.
            3. Take it from me, until your life has been tested, many times, it’s very easy to not believe or believe.
            4. Your incessant “e-coli” theory is weak. You fail to understand that “self-awareness” can be a distinguishing factor for spirituality and soul. E-coli has no awareness. Nor do plants, microbes, etc. Apart from humans, apes, dolphins and elephants are the only species we’ve seen that are self-aware.
            5. Why couldn’t e-coli be here for a reason too? We all have a very limited and narrow understanding of life here on Earth. If something created all this—that entity could do ANYTHING. What hubris on your part to believe you could figure it all out!
            5. Animals have no morality. They have raw survival instincts. There is a HUGE difference. Morality is establishing rules of right or wrong, that may or may not have anything to do with survival. Please tell me you understand that.
            6. Why are we here? Cultures that believe in one God, or multiple gods are the hardest for intelligent people to believe. They are often incredibly simplistic, their manuscripts are filled with error and contradiction. But if you look at cultures that believe in reincarnation, they have perhaps the most plausible theory for the self-awareness factor. If you believe that matter cannot be destroyed, it can only change form, then why is an indestructible soul so hard to believe? Simply because you cannot see it? You can’t see gravity either, but you know it’s there. Could there be one grand consciousness, and we are all fractured portions of that consciousness, here to learn something, or perhaps here to feel anything at all? If a larger “everygod” exists, an existence that knows no pain and wherein there is only unconditional love, might that existence not want a foil to keep it centered? Entertained? Who knows?
            7. As humans, we’ve just begun to really use our brains. Look at what we’ve discovered in the last 200 years alone! How narrow-minded were we 200 years ago? How narrow-minded will we look 200 years from now? How do you think you can know everything right now? So sad. Open up your mind and try to figure these things out together, instead of merely throwing rocks at everyone else.

          • Hmmm?

            Didn’t you respond to me, not the other way around? Well, never mind.

            As to NDEs, I’ll stick with the science. If you want to go elsewhere, fine by me, but I don’t place much credence in that sort of thinking. There are many different “spiritual” wishes that people have that are unsubstantiated by science. You’d asked why nobody was doing research into NDEs. Well, they have, and they’ve found nothing. It’s at the point where no serious researcher would spend a lot of time on the question without a good reason. There is no theoretical framework within science for NDEs/afterlife questions. They have not proved fruitful. They are, as far as we can tell, manifestation of waking dreams, i.e. hallucinations. They’ve never been shown to be anything else.

            By the way, I don’t claim to be open-minded. I challenge you to point out where I said that. I’m not agnostic.

            As to shock value of being an atheist, in my circle, it’s the norm; most people I know are atheists. If it’s shocking to you, you live in a different part of the world than I do.

            As to “self-awareness,” you’re on shaky ground. There is no testable definition of self-awareness to know, either what it is or which creatures do or don’t have it. Most difficult is, again, there’s no theoretical framework for self-awareness. There’s no understanding of how self-awareness is functionally different from any kind of awareness. If you come up with a way, let us know. People make many assumptions about what other creatures do or don’t do, most of which is untested speculation; much of it is concerned with animal perception. It’s often said, for example, that humans are the only animal that’s aware of it’s own mortality, although there has been absolutely no way to determine that; it’s one of those assumptions we make to distinguish ourselves from other animals, even if it’s untrue or, at least, unproven.

            Why couldn’t e. coli be here for a reason? What kind of reason are you suggesting? What is the reason for anything? I have hubris in figuring it out? What? That’s there’s no discernible purpose for the universe? You think that’s a big jump? You think it’s a bigger jump that guess there must be a purpose? A purpose? What could the possible purpose of this and whatever multiverses there are be? You’re pretending you think there might be a purpose to all this and you’re suggesting I have hubris for accepting it as I see it? Excuse me while I shift into my Marge Simpson role again, “Hmmm?” You certainly are a human; you don’t think outside those confines.

            And as to comparing souls to gravity, my advice is don’t take any physics courses. And maybe not any metaphysics, either. Souls are imaginary. There is no evidence for souls. There’s not even a good definition of souls. Gravity is real. If you’re comparing the two, you have a lot of catching up to do. Why is “an indestructible soul so hard to believe”? You aren’t seriously asking that question, are you? If we have no idea what a soul is, no evidence for any such thing existing, how can it be destructible, much less indestructible?

            Take your sentence: ” If something created all this—that entity could do ANYTHING.” If you want an anthropomorphic sentence, that’s it. Getting back to the scale of the universe, all the universes, the time scales involved, and you’re still thinking of a god that is, oh, so human. The mere concept of “doing something” is such a human expression vastly under-appreciative of the complexity and enormity of the universe(s). You envision there’s a god somewhere waking up in the morning, saying, “Let’s see, what have I got to do today?” You think you could possible comprehend the machinations of an entity which could create endless space and time? You think it would be in the realm of “to do”? How simplistic can you get?

            Animal morality? Since the first one-celled critter burst onto the scene, that critter had to be consciously aware of its surroundings and its composition. It had to be able to locate, select, and manipulate raw materials. It had to have built into itself the knowledge of when to divide and multiply. After sex appeared, it had to be able to recognize the opposite sex and perform mating procedures with it. It had to have a sense of itself and of others. At some point, it had to learn to recognize danger either from environment or other creatures. It had to have sensors to feed it information, and limbs to carry out instructions. It had to have a way to process the sensory information, weed out the noise, make and enact a decision. From day one, there have been only two known ways that this internal communication is carried out: through electrical or chemical signals. As far as we know, nothing’s been added to the pot. That means that we functionally operate the same way every other creature in the world operates, animal or vegetal.

            And how we operate is as a species, not as individuals. As the saying goes, the chicken is just the egg’s way of reproducing itself. Every species has hard and fast rules of how it’s protoplasmic extensions (you and me, for example) relate to each other. These rules can get incredibly complex and unrecognizable as inherited, innate traits, but they are. Those rules are the species’ morality. Every species, even the simplest, has to have them in order to survive. That’s why they’re inherent in people. Our morality is merely an extension of those rules, but they aren’t unique to us. Far from it; without intra-specific morality, nothing would survive. (And don’t you see this as hubris on your part: thinking we’re moral creatures while every other animal is mere brute innate action? You sure want to set us apart, don’t you?)

            Another sentence from you: “If a larger ‘everygod’ exists, an existence that knows no pain and wherein there is only unconditional love, might that existence not want a foil to keep it centered? Entertained?” Without getting too redundant, could I again point out how couched in human terms this god of yours is? Love? You think love has anything to do with anything? (“What’s love but a second-hand emotion?”) From where do you get that idea? That’s so human. But nothing like a god wanting to be “entertained.” By what, exploding supernovae? You have to be kidding. You can’t have given this much thought. A god wanting to be entertained? Like the Greek gods on Mt. Olympus? That one small-assed god, if you ask me.

            Have I implied I know everything right now? If I tell you I know that the earth is not the center of the universe, am I telling you that I know everything? Is that not just your way of denying existing knowledge? You want to believe in an “other world,” so you’re willing to ignore what we do know. Look, everyone has fantasies. Could they be correct? Theoretically, yes, every one of them. But, realistically, it’s bullshit. If you see a fantasy, there’s no need to say, “Well, I don’t know if it’s true or not.” You can call it as it is. There may be a teacup floating around the Earth, but I don’t believe it; even though I can’t prove it.

            Hey, I’m not throwing rock; you’re standing in the middle of an avalanche.

          • JammerJammer

            This is the trollish response I expected. If you looked at all, you’d realize that:
            1. I’m not the person whom you responded to. Before beginning each post with your snarky, patronizing, non-English tone, it helps to read when pretending to know everything.
            2. You confuse my posited thought-starters with my beliefs. If you bothered to read, you’d have noticed I declared myself atheist at the start. The difference between you and me? I realize how little I know, or can know, about the possibility of an afterlife, and am actively entertaining possibilities. You don’t even entertain them. You are static in your thinking. You’ve solved it already. I know I haven’t. To think that we’re all here for something is no more simple or complex a concept than that we are all here for nothing. You speak of “humans” with disgust, yet somehow, your superior brain, also human, has figured it all out. You are somehow immune to your own humanity. Kudos on resolving that contradiction, my friend. You are truly a marvel.
            3. Wow. You really don’t understand morality. That explains a lot.

            So why are you here? Why are you trolling a topic about the afterlife when you clearly have no faculty to consider the possibility? That is the very definition of a troll. You’re just looking for an argument, and of course, you take the side that even a monkey can defend. Well done.

          • the dude that wrote that

            Johan you write logically and rationalize life very well. But you have to realize that their is an illusion that exists. The illusion consists of a duality manifesting itself, or at least thats the best way i can put it into words. The whole universe started at an infinitely small point. everything to come out of that is the same one thing as that point, it has to be. it all exists in sync with the rest. There is but one consiousness or awareness that exists. much like their are many many waves in an ocean but its still an ocean or many many individual blades of grass but still grass objectively. all animals are that one consciousness. I agree that one life unfortunately is inisignificant but yet it still is significant. its all a duality. its the projection of the universal consciousness ffragmented, it has to be fragmented otherwise it wouldnt perceive itself! like sagan said we are the universe perceiving itself. It is very hard to articulate, but the feeling of being absolute awareness, free from any thought, just being is achievable (meditation, death, psychedelic drugs, etc). otherwise you couldnt sit here and think of stuff to say, an awareness (observer) must be there to think those thoughts. dualiity! god is the eternal consciousness, the transcendence of that duality, we are god. you, me, the blade of grass, the e coli all of it. idk if im right but thats my two cents and srry if its not articulate enough not a native english speaker. just be! thats the purpose! namaste

          • Johan

            Hi, Dude,

            Maybe. Some of it, yeah; other parts, not so much.

            I agree that the potential for the entire universe had to have been there at the beginning, but that doesn’t mean that what is here now is what was in that infinitesimal point. The elements, as we know them, for example, weren’t present at the beginning but only appeared as the universe aged, had stars, etc.

            Likewise, the potential for life and consciousness were there at the beginning; but just as likely, life and consciousness didn’t arise until later (how much later, we have no idea; we have only one example). But I don’t think there’s such a thing as a universal consciousness (which is different than being one with the universe). I think consciousness is a necessary attribute for living things to function, but I don’t see any necessity for a universal consciousness. Furthermore, I’d be hard pressed to think how one could test such a concept; and if we can’t fabricate a test for it, it’s a religious concept, not an empirical concept. I can’t see anything like an eternal consciousness or a shared consciousness; that seems to me to be empathy, not shared consciousness.

            As to “duality,” I’m not sure what you mean, so I can’t comment. As to “illusion,” I certainly agree that consciousness is an illusion, but a necessary illusion that comes with all levels of conscious complexity. The illusion is the illusion of self, and the illusion of being in control, the illusion of free will.

            Your English is fine. Much better than I would be in any other language.

  6. JammerJammer

    I really want to believe in an afterlife. My wife just passed and I miss her incredibly. I am sick wondering if she is okay, where is she right now? She doesn’t visit me in my dreams. No ghosts in the home she died in. She was cremated per both of our requests, so her ashes are in our house. But I feel nothing.

    Prior to her death, both of us were lapsed Catholics. Disillusioned with many (though not all) of the people connected with that institution, and with the “big fairy tale” as it was taught to us. It was our parents’ religion, but we didn’t buy it. We weren’t sure what to believe. I’d seen a lot of unfairness and death, and I don’t believe “everything happens for a reason.” God gave us skeptical, scientific, quizzical brains that demand proof and expects us not to use them? The “leap of faith” argument is a tough one to swallow, especially if we’re to have been created in God’s own image. Religion has always been an instrument of control and order—and I’m not sure the human beast could have survived this long without it. But there is so much wasted, unnecessary pain out there. Skeptical by nature, my wife and I discussed it often. On my own, I began to think about it.

    Somedays, I feel this is it. That we are an assemblage of chemicals on this swiftly tilting planet, and nothing more. That our self-awareness is a defect, an evolutionary palsy, and we have egotistically duped ourselves into believing we’re part of something grander. Because thinking our wonderful selves will perish eternally is simply too much for us to bear. The threat of loneliness is too great.

    But somedays, it feels right to me that we might be all connected. Somehow. There are so many religions based on a God that share so many similarities. Scientifically, you’d be foolish to ignore that. Just as it is foolish to ignore the similarities with NDEs. Now, that is by no means proof, but it means that there is a possibility something is there. Some truth about what comes next. Something worth exploring. We might be part of a greater energy. One energy, not a patriarchal/matriarchal sort of thing, but a teeming bundle of energy on some other plane. Perhaps there, we do not feel, and we assemble in the physical plane for amusement, or need, or who knows what. I doubt I could fathom it. And I’m not even certain yet if we’re supposed to.

    We had the Santa Claus theory earlier. Similarly, imagine telling a caveman how TV works. Or quantum theory. His brain would not be able to comprehend it. Therefore, why do we think that we are ready to understand why we’re here and what we’re supposed to do? How can we dismiss these theories so quickly? What is more worthy of our thought? We’ve posited all we know about the universe based merely on some goofy shifting lights in the sky. TIny breadcrumb clues, and look how far we’ve gotten. Maybe spiritually, we’re just not there yet.

    And finally, my answer to the whole, “mosquito argument” is that mosquitoes, bacteria and plants are not self-aware. Life is not self-awareness, it is merely function. So if you narrow the world to only creatures that are self-aware, and those capable of understanding some sort of higher life, or grander emotion other than base survival instincts, the theories become more plausible.

    So I am still searching for an answer. I don’t know what camp I’m in. I want to believe, but I am a very tough sell. It is all very much worth exploring. It doesn’t change how much I miss my wife. I talk to her every day.

    • Johnny Fastlane

      @the dude who wrote that
      thank you. that analysis is my feeling also,
      and youve actually broadened my scope a little bit, i havent been seeking any profound “meanings of life” or anything until fairly recently. Im intelligent enough to know religion for what it is. by simply obssrving what is visible to my own senses ive arrived very nearly verbatim to what you posted. The universe, each consciousness, all one. I will just add that our brains have the ability to access the whole as well, and vice versa, our lives on earth have caused much to be either lost, forgotten, or unlearned/unrealized. Clearly some individuals and ‘cultures’ or groups of individuals in the past had a much more in tuned knowledge of these things. I personally do not know any more about how to access it on my own, at will, but things have happened to me in my lifetime that showed me this connection is very real. It happens without us trying at times i dont know any of the mechanics involved whatsoever but i know it happens. Kind of the whole reason im even entertaining researching the possibilities that exist.Our brains can do vast things if we can harness the energies flowing in our minds and all around us all the time, (the “one”) Our minds are not in our bodies our bodies are in our minds, higher consciousness exiss in all of us. As for afterlife i dont know, im not completely sure we ever really die or even that we were born sometimes, ohr physical body dies, conscious back into superconscious(?) i think. as you said, part of the same since the beginning. Dont ask me to explain how i somehow just realize that you are correct, god is us we are god. the universe, multiverse, all everything is god and thus us. Oh yeah and the mathematics are the key to the puzzle im far from a physicist but yes, the math and numbers are the code of the universe. We know so very little of it all. good stuff.

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